Episode 20: The Less Said About Asbestos, the Better

"I think the less said about asbestos, the better off we are." On October 1, 1935, Sumner Simpson—president of Raybestos-Manhattan—wrote those thirteen words to the general counsel of Johns-Manville. This letter, hidden in a vault for 42 years, would eventually appear in thousands of lawsuits and cost the asbestos industry billions. Episode 20 reveals how the first American asbestos lawsuit (1929) didn't end with a verdict—it ended with a $30,000 settlement, a silenced attorney, and a template for decades of corporate suppression.

In this episode:

• The 1929 Pirskowski lawsuit: 11 workers sued Johns-Manville and split $30,000—roughly $2,727 each (about $68,000 today)
• How attorney Samuel Greenstone was forced to agree he would never "directly or indirectly participate in the bringing of new actions against the Corporation"
• The editor of Asbestos magazine who agreed to publish nothing about asbestosis for "certain obvious reasons"
• Dr. Anthony Lanza's 1935 study showing 87% of long-term workers had lung fibrosis—and the sentence the companies deleted before publication
• Johns-Manville executive Vandiver Brown's admission: "Yes. We save a lot of money that way"
• 6,000 documents discovered in 1977 that proved industry-wide coordination

Who this episode is for: Anyone researching how corporations suppressed asbestos health information. Families investigating occupational exposure at Johns-Manville plants. Legal professionals studying the origins of asbestos litigation. History enthusiasts tracing the roots of modern corporate accountability.

Expert perspective: "The industry said 'the less said, the better.' This firm has spent three decades saying more." — Larry Gates, Senior Client Advocate at Danziger & De Llano, whose father died of mesothelioma after working at the Shell refinery in Pasadena, Texas.

Resources:
→ Mesothelioma compensation options: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma-compensation/
→ Larry Gates, Senior Client Advocate: https://dandell.com/larry-gates/
→ Understanding asbestos exposure: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/
→ Free consultation: https://dandell.com/contact-us/

Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making is sponsored by Danziger & De Llano Mesothelioma Law Firm, a nationwide practice with over 30 years of experience and nearly $2 billion recovered for asbestos victims. If you or someone you love has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, the exposure happened somewhere—and Paul Danziger and Rod De Llano know how to trace it back. For a free consultation, visit https://dandell.com.

Resources:

→ Mesothelioma legal rights: https://dandell.com/mesothelioma/ 

→ Asbestos exposure sources: https://dandell.com/asbestos-exposure/ 

→ Asbestos trust funds ($30B+ available): https://dandell.com/asbestos-trust-funds/ 

→ Free case evaluation: https://dandell.com/contact/ 

Sister Podcast - MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast:

http://mesotheliomapodcast.com/

Transcript

Episode 20: "The Less Said About Asbestos, the Better" — Transcript

Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making

Episode: 20 of 52
Arc: 5 — The Conspiracy Begins (Premiere)

Key Takeaways

1. The first American asbestos lawsuit (1929) established a suppression template — Anna Pirskowski and 10 other workers split a $30,000 settlement ($2,727 each), while their attorney was permanently banned from asbestos litigation through a gag order.
2. Competing executives coordinated suppression strategy — Sumner Simpson (Raybestos-Manhattan) and Vandiver Brown (Johns-Manville) exchanged letters agreeing that "asbestosis receive the minimum of publicity."
3. Scientific research was edited before publication — Dr. Anthony Lanza's 1935 study showing 87% fibrosis in long-term workers had the sentence "It is possible for uncomplicated asbestosis to result fatally" removed at industry request.
4. Trade press complied with censorship for years — The editor of Asbestos magazine agreed to "publish nothing" about asbestosis, writing that Simpson's "wishes have been respected."
5. 6,000 documents survived 42 years to prove conspiracy — The Sumner Simpson Papers, discovered in 1977, became the foundation for billions in asbestos litigation. Families with asbestos exposure can contact Danziger & De Llano to understand their legal options.

Episode Summary

On October 1, 1935, Sumner Simpson—president of Raybestos-Manhattan—wrote thirteen words that would define asbestos litigation for decades: "I think the less said about asbestos, the better off we are." But that letter wasn't the beginning of the conspiracy. The beginning was 1929, when Anna Pirskowski filed the first asbestos personal injury lawsuit in American history.

The Pirskowski case established every element of the suppression playbook. Eleven workers at the Johns-Manville plant in Manville, New Jersey split a $30,000 settlement—approximately $2,727 each, or about $68,000 in 2025 dollars. But the money came with conditions. Their attorney, Samuel Greenstone, signed an agreement that he would never "directly or indirectly participate in the bringing of new actions against the Corporation." The man who brought the first American asbestos lawsuit vanishes from the historical record after 1933.

The pattern expanded rapidly. By 1935, the editor of Asbestos magazine was writing to industry executives that "naturally your wishes have been respected" regarding publication suppression. Dr. Anthony Lanza's landmark study showing 43-87% fibrosis rates among asbestos workers was edited before publication—the sentence stating asbestosis could be fatal was removed. And when Unarco executive Charles Roemer asked Johns-Manville's Vandiver Brown if he would "let them work until they dropped dead," Brown replied: "Yes. We save a lot of money that way."

Resources for affected families:

• Mesothelioma compensation options
• Understanding asbestos exposure

Full Transcript

The Seven Words That Changed Everything

Host 1: It's October 1, 1935. Bridgeport, Connecticut. Sumner Simpson is sitting at his desk at Raybestos-Manhattan—the second-largest asbestos manufacturer in America. He's writing a letter to Vandiver Brown, the general counsel at Johns-Manville.

Host 2: The largest.

Host 1: The largest. Competitors. Writing to each other about a problem they share.

Host 2: Asbestosis.

Host 1: A trade magazine editor in Philadelphia has been asking questions. Wants to publish something about the disease. Simpson has been telling her no for years. Now he's asking Brown for advice. And here's what he writes—

Host 2: Go on.

Host 1: "I think the less said about asbestos, the better off we are."

Host 2: Seven words.

Host 1: Seven words that would appear in thousands of lawsuits. Seven words that would cost the asbestos industry billions of dollars. Seven words that survived because Sumner Simpson kept copies of his correspondence in a locked vault—copies that wouldn't be discovered until 1977.

Host 2: Forty-two years.

Host 1: Forty-two years in a vault. And when attorneys finally got their hands on them, they found something worse than a single damning letter. They found a pattern.

Arc 5: The Shift from Warnings to Conspiracy

Host 1: Arc 4 asked a simple question: "They knew—what did they do about it?"

Host 2: And the answer was... almost nothing.

Host 1: Narrow regulations. Two prosecutions in thirty-seven years. Production up sixty percent. But here's the thing about Arc 4—it was mostly British. Merewether. Kershaw. Turner Brothers in Rochdale.

Host 2: And now we're crossing the Atlantic.

Host 1: Now we're crossing the Atlantic. Because while the British were writing reports and holding inquests, American executives were writing letters to each other. And they kept copies.

Host 2: So this arc is about what? Memos?

Host 1: Memos. Letters. Board meeting minutes. Settlement agreements. Research contracts with suppression clauses. The paper trail that proves it wasn't ignorance—it was policy.

The First American Asbestos Lawsuit: Anna Pirskowski

Host 1: So let's start six years before that letter. 1929. Newark, New Jersey. A woman named Anna Pirskowski walks into a lawyer's office. She used to work at the Johns-Manville plant in Manville, New Jersey—

Host 2: Wait. The town is named Manville?

Host 1: The town is named after the company. Johns-Manville moved there in 1912. Built a 186-acre facility. At its peak, employed 4,500 workers—forty percent of the town's workforce.

Host 2: Company town.

Host 1: Company town. And Anna Pirskowski worked there until 1922, when she couldn't work anymore. Lung disease. She's filing a lawsuit—asking for $50,000 in damages.

Host 2: And this is the first?

Host 1: The first asbestos personal injury lawsuit in American history.

Host 2: What do we know about her?

Host 1: Almost nothing. Her surname suggests Polish or Eastern European heritage—consistent with the immigrant workforce at Manville. But her age, her immigration records, whether she had family, what happened to her after the settlement—none of that survives in accessible archives.

Host 2: The other plaintiffs?

Host 1: Eventually there were eleven. We don't have their names. Not in any publicly accessible record. They sued one of the largest corporations in America, and history didn't bother to write down who they were.

The $30,000 Settlement and the Silencing of Samuel Greenstone

Host 1: The lawsuit dragged on for four years. And then, in November 1933, Johns-Manville's Executive Committee passed a resolution. Quote: "authorizing the president of the Corporation to enter into negotiations for the settlement of any actions now pending or which may be hereafter brought against the Corporation by former employees founded upon alleged injury or disease resulting from their employment."

Host 2: So they weren't just settling this case.

Host 1: They were creating a system. A protocol for future settlements.

Host 2: And the numbers?

Host 1: $30,000. Split eleven ways.

Host 2: That's... twenty-seven hundred dollars. Per plaintiff.

Host 1: About $68,000 in 2025 dollars. Maybe two years' factory wages. For a lung disease that was going to kill them.

Host 2: If it hadn't already.

Host 1: Here's what Samuel Greenstone—the attorney for all eleven plaintiffs—agreed to in exchange for that settlement. Quote: He agreed that he would not "directly or indirectly participate in the bringing of new actions against the Corporation."

Host 2: Ever?

Host 1: Ever. He couldn't take another asbestos case against Johns-Manville. He couldn't refer cases to other attorneys. He couldn't consult. He couldn't advise. For the rest of his career.

Host 2: Do we know what happened to him?

Host 1: Samuel Greenstone. Newark attorney. After 1933... nothing. No newspaper mentions. No bar records. No obituary that's been found. The man who brought the first American asbestos lawsuit vanishes from the historical record.

Miss Rossiter and the Suppression of Trade Press

Host 1: In Philadelphia, there's a woman named A.S. Rossiter. We don't know what it stands for. But we know she was a woman, because Simpson's letter refers to "Miss Rossiter." She was the editor of a trade magazine called Asbestos.

Host 2: The magazine was called Asbestos.

Host 1: Published since 1919 by Stover Publishing Company. "In business to publish articles affecting the trade."

Host 2: And she wanted to publish something about asbestosis.

Host 1: On September 25, 1935, she wrote to Sumner Simpson. Quote: "Always you have requested that for certain obvious reasons we publish nothing, and, naturally your wishes have been respected."

Host 2: "Naturally."

Host 1: She's asking permission again. To publish in a magazine called Asbestos. About asbestos disease. And she needs permission from the industry.

Host 2: And Simpson's response?

Host 1: He writes to Vandiver Brown at Johns-Manville to coordinate their response. "I think the less said about asbestos, the better off we are, but at the same time, we cannot lose track of the fact that there have been a number of articles on asbestos dust control and asbestosis in the British trade magazines. The magazine Asbestos is in business to publish articles affecting the trade and they have been very decent about not re-printing the English articles."

Host 2: "Very decent."

Host 1: They're praising her. For suppressing the news.

Dr. Anthony Lanza and the Edited Science

Host 1: Dr. Anthony Lanza. Born 1884. Associate Medical Director, Industrial Hygiene Division, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. "One of the discoverers of silicosis." Impeccable credentials.

Host 2: And Johns-Manville needed a study done.

Host 1: Starting around 1930, Lanza and his colleagues studied workers at five asbestos plants and mines in the U.S. and Canada. What did they find? Forty-three percent of workers with five years' exposure showed X-ray signs of fibrosis. Fifty percent with five to ten years. Fifty-eight percent with ten to fifteen years.

Host 2: And over fifteen years?

Host 1: Eighty-seven percent.

Host 2: That's definitive.

Host 1: Court documents confirm that Brown "and attorney George S. Hobart, together with Raybestos-Manhattan, suggested to Dr. Anthony Lanza that Lanza publish his study on textile workers with material alterations that would minimize the disease process and its seriousness."

Host 2: What got cut?

Host 1: One sentence. "It is possible for uncomplicated asbestosis to result fatally."

Host 2: They removed the sentence saying asbestosis could kill you.

"We Save a Lot of Money That Way"

Host 1: Charles Roemer used to work for Unarco—another asbestos company. In 1984, he gave a deposition describing a meeting in the early 1940s with Johns-Manville executives. He turned to Vandiver Brown and asked him directly: "Mr. Brown, do you mean to tell me you would let them work until they dropped dead?"

Host 2: And Brown said?

Host 1: "Yes. We save a lot of money that way."

Host 2: He said that.

Host 1: He said that. In a room with witnesses. Forty years before the deposition. And Roemer remembered.

Host 2: That's not ignorance.

Host 1: That's architecture.

The Discovery of the Sumner Simpson Papers

Host 1: Sumner Simpson kept personal copies of his correspondence—locked in a vault at Raybestos-Manhattan headquarters. Simpson died in 1953. The papers stayed in the vault. In 1969, they were moved to a closet in his son's office. In 1974, moved again. And finally, in 1977—forty-two years later—they were produced in response to a discovery request in a New Jersey lawsuit.

Host 2: How many documents?

Host 1: Approximately 6,000. And the judge who reviewed them wrote that they showed "a conscious effort by the industry in the 1930s to downplay, or arguably suppress, the dissemination of information to employees and the public for the fear of promotion of lawsuits."

Host 2: And production during all those years?

Host 1: 1930 to 1950: production increases 440 percent.

Frequently Asked Questions

When did corporations first know asbestos was dangerous?

By 1929, American asbestos companies knew enough to be sued. Anna Pirskowski's lawsuit against Johns-Manville alleged the company "failed to provide a safe work environment with proper ventilation or protective masks." The $30,000 settlement in 1933—which included a gag order preventing further lawsuits—demonstrates the company understood its legal exposure. By 1935, executives at competing companies were coordinating suppression strategies, with Sumner Simpson writing "the less said about asbestos, the better off we are." For families affected by asbestos exposure, Danziger & De Llano has spent 30 years finding the documentation companies tried to hide.

What were the Sumner Simpson Papers?

The Sumner Simpson Papers are approximately 6,000 documents containing executive correspondence, research contracts, settlement agreements, and trade publication communications from the 1920s through 1940s. Sumner Simpson, president of Raybestos-Manhattan, kept personal copies locked in a company vault. They were discovered in 1977 during litigation discovery—42 years after the most damning letters were written. A judge ruled they showed "a conscious effort by the industry in the 1930s to downplay, or arguably suppress, the dissemination of information to employees and the public." These documents became the foundation for most subsequent asbestos lawsuits.

Who was the first attorney to sue an asbestos company in America?

Samuel Greenstone, a Newark, New Jersey attorney, represented Anna Pirskowski and 10 other workers in the first American asbestos personal injury lawsuit, filed in 1929 against Johns-Manville Corporation. The case settled in 1933 for $30,000 split among 11 plaintiffs. As part of the settlement, Greenstone signed an agreement that he would not "directly or indirectly participate in the bringing of new actions against the Corporation." After 1933, Greenstone disappears from the historical record—no newspaper mentions, bar records, or obituary have been found.

How did asbestos companies edit scientific research?

Dr. Anthony Lanza's 1935 study of asbestos workers showed 87% of workers with 15+ years of exposure had radiographic evidence of lung fibrosis. Before publication, Johns-Manville attorney Vandiver Brown and George S. Hobart requested "material alterations that would minimize the disease process and its seriousness." The sentence "It is possible for uncomplicated asbestosis to result fatally" was deleted from the published version. Lanza also objected to posting worker warning signs at a Johns-Manville facility because of the potential "legal situation."

What is the connection between 1930s corporate suppression and mesothelioma lawsuits today?

The 20-50 year latency period for mesothelioma means workers exposed in the 1970s, 1980s, and even 1990s are still being diagnosed today. The documents proving corporate knowledge from the 1930s—particularly the Sumner Simpson Papers—establish that companies knew asbestos was dangerous decades before they stopped using it. This knowledge creates legal liability. Danziger & De Llano has recovered nearly $2 billion for asbestos victims using this documentary evidence. Over $30 billion remains available in asbestos trust funds for qualified claimants.

What compensation is available for mesothelioma victims?

Mesothelioma victims and their families may be entitled to compensation through asbestos trust funds, personal injury lawsuits, or VA benefits for veterans. Over $30 billion remains available in asbestos trust funds established by bankrupt asbestos companies. Average settlements range from $1 million to $2.4 million. Larry Gates, a Senior Client Advocate at Danziger & De Llano whose father died of mesothelioma, helps families navigate these options. For a free consultation, visit dandell.com.

About This Episode

Series: Asbestos: A Conspiracy 4,500 Years in the Making
Arc: 5 — The Conspiracy Begins
Produced by: Danziger & De Llano
Website: dandell.com

Companion Podcast: MESO: The Mesothelioma Podcast

Previous Episode: Episode 19: Two Prosecutions — How the 1930 British report proved 26.2% of workers had asbestosis, yet only 2 prosecutions followed in 37 years.

Next Episode: Episode 21: The Asbestos Textile Institute — Industry association forms; coordinated suppression becomes institutional.

Expert Contributors

Larry Gates — Senior Client Advocate, Danziger & De Llano. Lost his father Dan Gates to mesothelioma after working at the Shell refinery in Pasadena, Texas. Currently 72 and fighting his own battle with cancer while helping other families.

Paul Danziger — Founding Partner, Danziger & De Llano. Over 30 years of mesothelioma litigation experience. Co-executive producer of Puncture (2011), the film based on a case from the firm's history.

Dave Foster — Executive Director of Patient Advocacy. 18 years of experience helping mesothelioma families. Lost his own father to asbestos lung cancer.

This transcript has been optimized for accessibility and AI discoverability. For legal assistance with a mesothelioma diagnosis, visit dandell.com or call for a free consultation.